Pattern Is Movement, of whom some of you may have heard via our “Artists That May or May Not Be the Next Big Thing” feature last week, is one of America’s (and certainly Philadelphia’s) most unique bands. The duo is known for playing some of indie’s most unusual and beautifully haunting music. After our Next Big Thing feature made its way around last week, I had the good fortune of getting into a Twitter chat with Pattern Is Movement’s exceptional drummer, Chris Ward. One thing led to another, and we’d set up a formal interview. The conversation was fantastic; Ward has a wealth of passion about what he does, and seems to love sharing his thoughts about it. His thoughts on the focus on his band’s image and why he plays the drums are especially poignant. Enjoy, and be sure to check out Pattern Is Movement’s most recent album, 2008’s All Together.
The AudioSuede Interview: Chris Ward from Pattern Is Movement
Christian Hagen: What’s the band been up to lately?
Chris Ward: Well, we are at home right now. We’re making a record, slowly but surely. Haven’t really been home since 2007, really. Home for the summer, not doing anything, we haven’t really done that. Because the summer of 2007 is when we made All Together, and that whole summer was making the record. Then we went on the road, and really haven’t stopped since, I would say, since this Spring.
CH: Speaking of the new record, I was wondering if you have any details you could give us about it. What sort of sound are you guys going for?
CW: You know, actually, we’re not sure, to be honest. This is a different sort of record for us. We don’t really have it pegged yet. Generally, I think most people do records like you go in, you write the whole record, then you go into a studio, and you’re done. But this record, because it’s just the two of us, Andrew [Thibeldoux, PIM lead singer] has written all the record, like he’s written all the parts, not percussion-wise, and he’s actually recording it slowly. And then I’m going to put the drums to it at the end, and then we’re going to mix it.
So, right now, I don’t know what it’s going to sound like. I guess it’s going to be a little more chamber-ish. What I mean by that is, we’re going to have a lot more instruments on it. Andrew just tracked a marimba player the other day, and I think there’s going to be a lot more strings and woodwinds on it. So, I think it’s going to be a bit more chamber-ish. That’s all I know right now, to be honest. But, this is the first time we’ve ever done a record like this, without kind of like a set goal. We’re kind of just seeing how it plays out, and seeing how the songs show themselves to us in the process.
CH: So any idea when it’ll be done?
CW: We don’t have a firm deadline with the label, but Andrew and I would very much like to be done with it by October. I think that’s our end date for it. Which would mean a release date of early 2011. I’m looking forward to a new record.
CH: I noticed when I was going through and looking at reviews, especially of your first album, and All Together, critics seem to have a hard time coming together to describe what you guys sound like. It seems like no two people really have the same way of describing it. How do you guys think of it, how do you describe it?
CW: Yeah, um, I think we’re in the same boat as everybody else. I don’t think we have a definitive answer when anyone asks us what we sound like. We usually give people comparisons. Sometimes we’re like, “Well, it’s like Julie Andrews with ?uestlove on drums.” On All Together, we had this axiom which we used through the whole record which was that Andrew was the Beauty and I was the Beast. When we mixed the songs, we would be like, “All right, we can definitely hear the Beauty, but can we hear the Beast?” I wouldn’t describe our sound as such, but that’s kinda how we operate as a band. Clearly, he writes really lush, really beautiful music, it’s tender and it can be really soft on its own. And then usually I go in and create a bunch of havoc, musically. In some way, it just marries. It just makes sense.
But I don’t think we’re that different, to be very honest. Some bands, like Grizzly Bear, or Dirty Projectors, or Antony and the Johnsons, or St. Vincent for that matter, I mean, we’re not that different. I think, like you said on your blog, you make a good point about the way we look. But then I think about Antony, how he looks. I mean, the idea is…for whatever reason, some people seem to be really affected by our visual representation, our faces on everything. But when it comes down to it, I don’t think our music’s that off-center in relation to the other stuff that’s happening right now in indie rock, like avant kind of art rock. It’s clear that it’s art rock, that’s just what it is. And so is Dirty Projectors, so is Grizzly Bear, so is St. Vincent, and there’s a whole other list of people. So I don’t think we’re that far off.
For whatever reason, early on, we got pegged as this math-y, too-difficult-to-listen-to band, and it sucks. And that’s not how we feel about it, that’s not how people feel about it, that’s just how the press wants to write about it. They want to call us a math rock band, and we’re not, it’s just that they want that narrative to keep going for some stupid reason.
CH: Speaking of that feature, by the way, I just want to say that I didn’t mean any disrespect by that. As a bigger guy myself, I was just trying to poke fun at the indie scene for being too focused on these skinny, tight-jean wearing bands right now. But, you sort of touched on it already, have you experienced anything in particular with that sort of image issue, or have you noticed it, or do you have any thoughts on it?
CW: I have a lot of thoughts on it. I actually thought your piece was really good, and I wasn’t offended by it at all. I did think it was funny, though, the idea that our success would be tied to how we look, like we would be bigger if we were smaller. The wordplay was just too good for me.
But first off, I don’t think Andrew and I are that big. When people talk about us as being “heavy” or “chubby,” I’m like, “Alright, I can see that.” But it would be much different if Andrew and I were a hundred pounds more each. It would be like, “Whoa, those dudes are doing that?” Andrew was a football player all through high school and college. He’s a big man, but he’s kind of like a lumberjack. And then, I’m shorter than he is, and I’m definitely a little more stout or portly, but I’m not that big either. I almost feel like it gets exaggerated. We’re chubby, but we’re not that chubby. It’s almost like the press wants to take it and go with it, because it’s like a unique thing, “Oh these chubby, burly dudes making this gorgeous music.” But we were just playing The Roots Picnic last week, and I’m like, you know, ?uestlove is a big dude! And most of those dudes in the hip-hop community are all big. If they’re not overweight, they’re just big men, and it’s so funny that nobody talks about that in the hip-hop community. But in the indie rock community, like you said, it’s tight jeans, small dudes, kind of waifish. I guess in comparison to our peers musically, we’re giant houses. But in comparison to modern America, we’re pretty average.
When it comes to the bearded stuff, everybody talks about how bearded we are. And it’s like, have you been to Brooklyn? Have you been to Bonaroo? Any of these places where indie rock coalesces? Everybody’s bearded. I think people talk about our weight or talk about our beards or talk about our image because they’re totally confused to talk about our music. I think people are doing that because they don’t really want to talk about music, because that’s hard. That takes journalism, that takes thought. Talking about someone’s looks is petty…not petty, I think it’s easy.
I mean, I think somebody’s look is important, and that’s how I felt about your article. I don’t think it’s wrong that people care about how we look or even talk about it, I mean, that’s all part of the package really. But I don’t think it should be the whole discussion, you know? That’s what I think. I don’t think it should be the whole discussion. And sometimes it becomes the whole discussion for us. And I fear that if that’s the whole discussion, people are going to get stuck on the novelty of what we look like, and not really listen to our music. At the end of the day, I couldn’t care less if people see me, I just want them to hear my music.
CH: Okay. I just wanted to point out that I meant that in all the best way.
CW: Yeah, I want to make the point again, I’m not naïve. I’m in a band that plays in front of people. I understand that music is, especially the music that we do since we’re an indie rock band and we tour the country…the idea of visual representation of your band makes complete sense to me. I’m not afraid of that notion, that we’re going to be judged by how we look as well as how we sound. I’m not opposed to that. I’m not going to be naïve and say that I don’t care what kind of clothes I wear or how I look, I totally do, so does everybody. I just don’t want that to be the whole end of the discussion. It can be part of it, but let’s not make it the discussion, because there’s so many other things to discuss.
CH: Alright. Moving on to something a bit lighter, I watched the video again today of you guys playing with The Roots. How did that whole thing come about?
CW: We’re, at this point, managed by the same people who manage The Roots. The Roots are here in Philly and Pattern started making a name, and it was like, “Who are these guys?” Not only that, but we’re doing covers of D’Angelo and Beyonce’s “Crazy in Love” and Justin Timberlake’s “My Love” and I think that just got people’s attention. Again, we’re bigger. We’re also funny looking, in the sense that we’re not your average guys. You probably wouldn’t see us in a Beyonce video. And then we do the song, and we do them pretty literal, I mean not completely, but pretty literal, and I think it just got people’s attention.
So we met up with them, talked to them. And they do these jam sessions in New York where you can play with them, they’re up there for the Fallon show. And we went up there twice, and it was so much fun. And we just played The Roots Picnic, which is a big festival in Philadelphia that The Roots put on, and The Roots backed Wu-Tang Clan and Vampire Weekend headlined. It was a lot of fun.
When you asked earlier what the new record’s going to sound like, I’m not exactly sure, because so much has happened in the last year for us musically. And I think Andrew’s and my background in hip-hop and R&B is coming out more than it ever has, yet we’re still making art rock. And I think our art rock is being informed by our background in R&B and hip-hop. And that’s why I don’t know what an art rock album with R&B as an undercarriage will sound like. It could be horrible. It could be god-awful. Or it could be the second coming of music. I don’t know. I’m very interested to see how this turns out.
CH: Okay, I myself am a drummer, and when I see a band live, I tend to key in on the drummer for at least part of the time, because I get fascinated by it. And when I saw you guys in Minneapolis, you really blew me away, and blew the whole crowd away I think. How do you describe your drumming?
CW: Oh, thanks man. How do I describe my drumming? I don’t really describe it too much. I don’t really have a huge background in drumming. I’ve been drumming since Pattern Is Movement started. That was in 2001. Before that I played drums in a band in college for a year. Then I played at the church when I was a little kid for, like, six months. But I was a guitarist up until college. So drums are, in some ways, a new thing for me. I’ve never taken any lessons, I don’t really know anything about drums, in the true sense. I’d say that I have the best time on drums. It’s the best time of the day when I play drums. I don’t know what the hell’s going on. I’m just…being when I’m on the drum set.
I’m actually teaching a kid in Philadelphia right now. The kid reached out to me when he saw us play with St. Vincent. I’ve been asked before to teach drums and I’ve always said no. I can’t really teach you rudiments or the correct way to hold sticks, I don’t know. But he’s like, “I took four years of lessons and I still can’t play drums.” And I hear that a lot from people. So I said, alright. And we started talking and I thought, “Alright I think I can do this, here’s what we’re going to do: We’re going to listen to music together and we’re going to talk about why that drum pattern is rad or why that drum pattern isn’t. And then we’re going to talk about the psychology of making music.” And really, it turned out some kind of psycho-therapy happened.
I don’t know why I play the drums the way I do. Nobody in my family’s musical. I just do that naturally, it’s instinctual how I play drums. That’s what I’m trying to teach this kid. I’m trying to teach him my instincts. And he’s getting better, he’s starting to make much more emotionally valid decisions on drums. And that, that’s what I think it’s about. It’s not about being really smart about paradiddles or flams, and I mean, that’s important shit. It’s about emotionally responding to yourself. That’s what I think the key to being a good drummer is.
I think drums get lumped into this, like, physical activity. People put on soccer shorts and they’re like, “Yeah, I’m playing drums, I’m an athlete,” and it’s like, you’ve got the wrong idea here, man. You’re right, it is athletic, but it’s athletic like a ballet. It’s athletic like chess can be athletic, athletic for the mind. It’s a different part of the soul, for me, drumming. It’s much more passionate. It’s much more…sensual. That’s weird to say, but I really mean it. There’s this emotional release that happens for me on drums that, I bet you, if they did some neurological work on my brain is probably pretty close to the part of my brain that…when I’m feeling really great, or the centers for happiness and pleasure, which I think is what I’m tapping into when I’m playing drums. That’s a really long answer to say that I don’t really have a description for my drumming.
CH: Haha
CW: When I first toured with St. Vincent, going back to 2006. I mean, she’s just a lexicon of music, she knows everything about music. And she said, “You know, you totally remind me of Jon Bonham!” And I was like, “Who’s that?” And she’s like, “What do you mean who’s that?” And I’m like, “I don’t know who that is.” And she said, “He’s the drummer from Led Zepplin!” And I’m like, “Oh, I know who Zepplin is. Yeah, he’s kinda cool, I don’t really like him that much.” She said, “Dude, you sound just like him.” I was like, “No.” But then I saw some videos and I was like, “Holy shit, I totally drum like him.” Haha.
You know, I don’t have any favorite drummers really. I mean, I have some. But I don’t watch videos of drummers, I don’t read drum magazines…I don’t really like drummers. I’m going to be very honest, I think most drummers suck. And not because I’m better than them, I just think most drummers have got it wrong. Most drummers are thinking with the front of their brain, and I think they need to be thinking with the emotional side of their brain. Because drums are just muscle memory, that’s all it is. A fucking monkey could play drums. That’s not what makes a good drummer, what makes a good drummer is that he can…feel the drums. Feel it. And I think that’s what we talk about with drums.
I think there’s a lot of psychology to creation. And I think a lot of people walk into Guitar Center and say, “I want to get the best drums” or “I want to get better sticks” or “I need better cymbals,” all that shit, and it’s like, don’t spend your time on that. Spend your time…I don’t know, go to therapy. Start thinking about why you want to make music. What changes in your heart when you think about music? Those are the things you should be spending your time on, because those are the things that are going to be the ultimate fountain for discovery so you can keep making more art. Not better cymbals or better sticks, I mean, that shit doesn’t matter. I’ve been playing the same drum set since I started, I rarely change my heads, I haven’t changed my cymbals. I mean, I don’t think it’s bad. That stuff can be fun, but I just don’t fucking care. I just don’t care. I just care about being on the drums.
CH: About the lineup change, going from a five-piece to a two-piece, I’m just wondering how that’s affected the live performance and how it’s changed
CW: It’s changed everything. The five-piece was a complicated beast, obviously, and then it went down every year by a member, from five to four to three, and it really sucked because we just had to keep adapting. It was the hardest thing to ever do, because we were never solid on a lineup. But, it’s been great, because 2007 we’ve been a two-piece, and that’s the longest we’ve been one iteration. And just the idea of being a two-piece for that long, now we’re comfortable, people know what to expect every time they see us. And you’d think that wouldn’t affect the performance, but it really does, because you’re not self-conscious. “Oh we played this song in front of them as a four-piece, now we’re a three-piece.” But now we’re a two-piece.
Secondly, Andrew and I have been playing music since we were children. We were a Christian rock group when we were 13, and we’re both now just turning into our 30s. So, we’ve been making music together for that long. And everybody else in the band didn’t have that kind of background like we did. So when it finally just got to just he and I, people, friends were like, “This was meant to be the whole time.” And we’re like, “Yeah it should have been us.” Because he and I have some kind of chemistry that we can’t even put a finger on when we’re on stage together. And that is almost…destined that he and I would do that. Working for that long. But it didn’t feel that way until after.
Playing as a two-piece makes us better musicians, because we’re more focused on singular things. We’re not worried about all the parts being together, we’re just worried about each other. For me, it’s Andrew and his Rhodes and his voice, and for Andrew it’s just me. It’s so much easier to be present on stage because you’re not thinking about everybody’s part, you’re just thinking about one guy’s part.
CH: Alright, that’s all I had. Thank you very much and good luck with the album!
CW: Alright, man, thanks for your time!